Thursday, August 19, 2010

Kashmir. Let's Talk.

[EDIT : Waiting esp. for response to Point 4. Please contact. Thanks.]















So... The 'situation' in J&K has gone from bad to obscenely terrible in a period of two months. Death toll of unarmed protesters nearing 60 (or has it crossed already?), most victims of bullet shots from the CRPF and other 'security forces'- above the waist, below the damn waist, who cares. Not a single tangible action from the State/Indian Govt to admit the wrongness of what has occurred. No restraint orders, no pulling up of guilty personnel, no apology to the people even? Oh, hang on, sorry. We have to wait about 20 years for an apology or anything like it.

Anyway, am planning a big post on my take on Kashmir.

Off the top of my head, I'll get into the following: [EDIT: Below points are a way ahead. How the problem ought to be solved. The detailed post will make clearer where I'm coming from.]
1. Kashmir is a political problem, NOT a religious one.
2. Unfortunately, a lot of people (who make the most noise as well) WILL make it a religious issue.
3. Is this communalising of Kashmir its biggest tragedy? Yes. Thank you, Britain, for the Partition and the never-ending mess you unleashed. (Let's blame them!)
4. I am really, really interested in talking with with serious, level-headed, non-combative Kashmiri Pandits - about everything. Get in touch with me, please?
5. Kashmir cannot be compared to Indian states, because it is a completely unique issue.
6. Non-Kashmiris who have not lived here REALLY have no idea, as well-intentioned as you may be.
7. Elections: 60% voter turnout in recent elections does NOT indicate acceptance of  Indian statehood. Ugh. Ask me, I voted. And now my neighbourhood has good roads, yay. How about this: people need a local administration to run things well for a change - that's schools, colleges, hospitals, roads, electricity, water and what have you.
8. Plebiscite? Where is it? Oh, yes.
9. YOUTH: Get together. Sanely. Please. So far, everyone's made a mess of things. Let's get organised and talk.



Incidentally, here's one book I read years ago: Tavleen Singh's 'Kashmir: A Tragedy of Errors'. Can't comment on it intelligently, I was too young to critique. All I remember is it was interesting.
Here's Vinayak Razdan's take on the book. (His blog is much too interesting, I say. Recommended.)

Oh, one more thing about the Kashmir problem: Books won't help much.

26 comments:

Fahad Saleem said...

Just as you say books won't help, it is pretty obvious that 'talks' won't help either. Further, how would a discussion with KPs achieve anything? The moment a KP agrees with a Kashmiri's stance of Azaadi, he'll be labelled a Islam/Pakistan loving traitor.

I feel the dialogue should really be between Kashmiris (the whole lot of them) and the 'Indian' contingent (Central, Media etc.)

Then again, such a Gandhian approach will not work when dealing with a corrupt nation like India.

suspended_cliche said...

An apology, yes to all those innocent who were killed in the state (by the state i mean the state of j&k and not the "state") and the terrorism that engulfed the whole country? that would be talking on equal lines.


1. Kashmir is a political problem, NOT a religious one. (if it is not? then why was 'commun'ity was so terrorised that they fled the state", why is that 'commun'ity still scare to put their foot in the state? the root cause is communal it was Always communal never nothing else. Oh yes its is a politicised communal problem, and brilliantly done.

2. crutches - no one wants to make something which it is not. "Political problems are symptoms" symptoms of a very deep rooted anger / frustation / motives (thee is too unenlightened to know) if the 'freedom fighters' do not know of the 'problem' i get shivers thinkin of the concequences



3. NO - the tragedy is people is the vallye do not know what they playing (pls dont catch me on the word). At times one has to be an outsider to see the macro picture.

4. NON - COMBATIVE ? oh are these by chance the people who were kicked out by "FORCE / COMBAT". tsk tsk.. we're being a little rude here aren't we? cmo'n give them the right to show their anger in "words" at least which in the valley is shown either by guns, grenades, bombs or if nothing else "stones". And oh is level headed the youth who just blindly pelts stone simply cos its a "routine" or has been told to do so after every friday prayer?

5. Ok - if you say so. but just if you say so. "its different"

6. Non Kashmiri - Yes that is me: Oh by the way its nice to have everything behind closed doors and of course very very polite way of saying stay OUT. By the way which one of the residents of islamabad (oh the real one in pakistan is what i refer to) or karachi or etc. etc. places in pakistan was / is a domicile of kashmir? none but its ok since we selectively decide the definition of the whole situation we can do anything and keep anyone out. Also the few lack crore worth of packages the state runs on to feed the (forcefully) uneducated and the (focefully) unemployed comes from us (the unrelated ones and the ones who've never stayed in kashmir) in terms of tax so why don't we have a voice, cmon we're better that those who run the camps of terror on the other side? aren't we?

7. Oh well why dont the tyrants who reck havock on peace come and support the infrastructure? on yeah maybe cos the only way they know of runnin a 'state' is the taliban way .. interesting. Also, 60% of the people vote, but the remaining 1% of the 40% who did not vote, decided for the 100% that this is acceptance of nothing.. ok i am trying to get understand the 'unique' situtation here

8. NO comments

9. Youth - Please, i say please with folded hands, join the mainstream.. yes talk, but with words.. lets treat brothers like brothers and sisters like sisters.. there were people before us who divided things on caste, communite, language, lets US not divide, let us UNITE for we know the history.. for we know the mistakes and we must not repeat. work, slog .. like everyone else does.. and yes STUDY please STUDY shun all those who tell you not to.... it is does NOT matter what you call a country and it has what name.. it is the land you live in.. u stand on one patch of land only and under the sky right above your head only ... contribute to that.. to your house, to your family, to your village, the world is made of humans.. land is just something we stand on.. lets at least be humans

longblackveil said...

@Fahad: My, my. How the generalisations flow! Really. Talks won't help. Then what will? Let's all take guns and have a shootout? Please.
How would a discussion with KPs achieve anything? Err, there's this HUGE animosity KPs have for Kashmiri Muslims, tragic as it sounds, and I want to move around it. So I'd like to talk with them. Also, KPs are very much Kashmiri, so everyone needs to get on board.
Last part of your comment suggests you want a slug-fest again. Why oh why.

longblackveil said...

Dear suspended_cliche: Your comment was way too long. I skimmed through to make sure there was no abuse,and here we are. Published. Will go through now.

longblackveil said...

@suspended_cliche: My points are for a way ahead. I liked your closing point, and let's shake on that. Non-combative is needed so I can have a meaningful discussion instead of us throwing history in each other's faces. Less hate, more understanding? This is 20 years on.

Deepak said...

Look forward to your detailed post. I think it would be useful if you instead of focussing on the problem, focus on what the solutions could be. Also, try to think if there is a solution which does not include India taking back its forces first, cos that ain't happening.

A few quick comments on your bullets:-
1. I agree it was a political problem to start with, but the genocide of KPs (by islamic terrorists) has made it completely religious. You'd be a fool to say its to relegious. The fact u acknowledge KPs dont have much love for kashmiri muslims is a proof.

2. Agree yep - religious aspect does get streched at times. Esp cos the whole "movement" has been branded "jihad" by fudamentalist muslims.

3. Totally agree. Most beautiful place with awesome people(and food yum!). This is the biggest tragedy indeed.

4. What do you want to say? Nothing will heal the wounds i think. KPs have moved on in life brilliantly. Kudos to them for picking up the pieces and making the best of what they could. ANY solution needs to involve KPs otherwise its a farce.

5. Yes unique, definitely needs an out of the box administrative thinking.

6. Agree but that doesnt mean dont listen to them. If you are far from the problem, you sometimes see all aspects of it. And they wont be emotional about it which can be good sometimes.

7. This is crucial. I think the most important point. Kashmiris Muslims say they need freedom, The biggest freedom is to select who governs you. But you dont seem to care about that. I invite Mirwaiz and that idiot Gilani to become CM. As you can see all over India and Pakistan. It is NOT EASY to run a govt in a 3rd world country while it is very easy to point the 20million things govt is unable to provide. I bet my house on the fact that those two guys(or anyone else not participating in elctions) will lose all their support when they become CM. Even Obama is struggling in the country which has world's reserve currency!!

8. Well whatever, forget this.If you get emotional and say I want this, you'r never gonna be able to suggest anythign practical and doable.

9. Yes, youth needs to figure out what they want and how. Last two months have clearly not taken kashmir towards any peace or resolution, its probably gone back 2 steps.

One more thing that I have often found bemusing is, all those people(kashmiri muslims) who hate india and want to break away from india, how do they justify earning their livelihood or getting medical treatment in India. some comments about this? As a proud Indian I want to kick those people in the balls, those who survive on India's resources only to spill venom on India. Why dont you suggest how Indians should respond to such people.

Apologies long post (probably a lot of typos as well). Feel free to moderate the post if you want.

Deepak said...

Look forward to your detailed post. I think it would be useful if you instead of focussing on the problem, focus on what the solutions could be. Also, try to think if there is a solution which does not include India taking back its forces first, cos that ain't happening. I'd like to see less sentimental/emotional appeals, more concrete proposals you can think of.

A few quick comments on your bullets:-
1. I agree it was a political problem to start with, but the genocide of KPs (by islamic terrorists) has made it completely religious. You'd be a fool to say its to relegious. The fact u acknowledge KPs dont have much love for kashmiri muslims is a proof.

2. Agree yep - religious aspect does get streched at times. Esp cos the whole "movement" has been branded "jihad" by fudamentalist muslims.

3. Totally agree. Most beautiful place with awesome people(and food yum!). This is the biggest tragedy indeed.

4. What do you want to say? Nothing will heal the wounds i think. KPs have moved on in life brilliantly. Kudos to them for picking up the pieces and making the best of what they could. ANY solution needs to involve KPs otherwise its a farce.

5. Yes unique, definitely needs an out of the box administrative thinking.

Continued in next comment.....

Deepak said...

...Last comment continued....

6. Agree but that doesnt mean dont listen to them. If you are far from the problem, you sometimes see all aspects of it. And they wont be emotional about it which can be good sometimes.

7. This is crucial. I think the most important point. Kashmiris Muslims say they need freedom, The biggest freedom is to select who governs you. But you dont seem to care about that. I invite Mirwaiz and that idiot Gilani to become CM. As you can see all over India and Pakistan. It is NOT EASY to run a govt in a 3rd world country while it is very easy to point the 20million things govt is unable to provide. I bet my house on the fact that those two guys(or anyone else not participating in elctions) will lose all their support when they become CM. Even Obama is struggling in the country which has world's reserve currency!!

8. Well whatever, forget this.If you get emotional and say I want this, you'r never gonna be able to suggest anythign practical and doable.

9. Yes, youth needs to figure out what they want and how. Last two months have clearly not taken kashmir towards any peace or resolution, its probably gone back 2 steps.

One more thing that I have often found bemusing is, all those people(kashmiri muslims) who hate india and want to break away from india, how do they justify earning their livelihood or getting medical treatment in India. some comments about this? As a proud Indian I want to kick those people in the balls, those who survive on India's resources only to spill venom on India. Why dont you suggest how Indians should respond to such people.

Apologies long post (probably a lot of typos as well). Feel free to moderate the post if you want.

longblackveil said...

Thank you for dropping in, Deepak. I'll save everything for that post then, yes?

The Mule said...

Just random pointers @deepak and @ suspended_cliche -
If Kashmiris could they would goto Pakistan for treatment or to earn livelihood, but India does not allow that. So, you want to kick them in the balls for being unable to travel to another country? Nice.

KPs lived throughout all the communal tensions in India's history, including partition, without any harm done to them. The time and reason they(and I am generalizing) were either killed or kicked out was when during 1989 they used to provide information to Indian Army(not all did, but the few who did branded everyone else in the community as informants and not true to the kashmir cause). This is similar to how anything Taliban or other idiots have gotten the majority of Muslim population branded as terrorists.

talking for and asking for our rights did not get us anything for 40 years, thus the turn to guns and armed resistance. dont forget, indians went through same phase with british. this is part n parcel of all movements - 2 branches - one for talks, one for action. nothing new here. move on.

Anonymous said...

Can you please explain what it is that the Kashmiri's want when they say they want freedom? Freedom from India? So they can become a part of Pakistan? Now, that baffles me. Are they aware of what is going on around the world? Do they not care for a future? For their children? How can anyone with a sane mind want to be a part of Pakistan unless it is purely on a religious basis? Today, India is a rising economic power, a responsible democracy and has the respect of every developed nation in the world. While Pakistan is regarded as a terrorist and a failed state. You want to be part of that? That aside, read this article I came across today. http://ow.ly/2rIm2 Do you forget how the muslims/mohajirs who went over from India during partition were/are treated? Do you forget how they treated the Banglas? And what makes Kashmiris think they will be given the red carpet?
Besides, why don't you compare your life with that of your brethren in POK to see who has made progress in the last 60 years? Currently 8% of India's GDP is being showered on 1% of India's population - Kashmir. What a sheer waste of our hard earned money.
Here's another interesting article for you http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/18/world/border-tension-a-growth-industry-for-kashmir.html?pagewanted=1
And if you say that Kashmiris want to be free of both India and Pakistan, you know that will never happen. Well, Hari Singh thought the same, and look what happened. Your friends from across the border were very happy to attack, loot, rape, destroy and capture their very own. I suppose that is history and not very important to remember. Is Kashmir capable of standing on its own and defend herself? I don't think so. Today you have the freedom to speak your mind, criticize the state and even put up your picture. I don't see that happening when you are talebanised. Why, I can already see Andrabi smiling.
Really, when will realization dawn?
Then again, Hari Singh had bought the whole of jammu and Kashmir from the king of Punjab for 75Lakhs. When he signed the accession treaty with India, it was for the whole of J&K which includes Ladakh. The kasmiri Pandit's don't want freedom, the Ladakhi's don't want freedomand neither do the Dogra's of Jammu. Do you ever think of them as part of this equation at all?

Anonymous said...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Embrace-Islam-or-leave-Valley-Sikhs-threatened/articleshow/6346853.cms

Tell me that part where Kashmir is not a religious problem once again please.

Anonymous said...

If Kashmir were a political problem, we would have seen Sikhs, Hindus & Buddhists of J&K standing shoulder-to-shoulder with their Muslim brethren, pelting stones at the CRPF.

Since we haven't seen that, lets accept things for what they truly are -- that Kashmir is a purely communal problem. Just as Punjab in the '80s was a communal problem.

I can relate to Kashmiri sentiments of cultural distinctiveness, and the heavy-handedness of the centre in dealing with them. I am a Maharashtrian living in Bangalore, and I do feel many times like a foreigner in a foreign land -- this in a state that we share borders with. If the entire police force in Maharashtra was controlled by Kannadigas, and we Marathis were stopped and searched at every corner police picket, I certainly would throw stones and many other things at them. No question about it.

However, in Kashmir, there is this one additional factor at play: The perennial fear of both Muslims and Hindus of having to submit to political domination by the latter, and the fuel added to this by the mullahs and the Hindutva brigade that tries to cynically extract maximum political mileage. This is exactly why the Hindus/Sikhs/Buddhists want to stay with India, but Valley Muslims seem to want out, in spite of a constitution that is secular and democratic.

Clearly, considering our collective histories, we should all know better. However, I do feel that even though we have a secular constitution, our civic society is still so heavily communalized and immature that the fears of the Kashmiri Muslims that likely feed the agitation in the valley are, perhaps, justified.

I also see Kashmir as a model for other Indian states. We all suffer from the tyranny of Delhi -- in more or less degrees. What concessions the Kashmiris extract from the centre will definitely serve as a template for other states.

What happens in Kashmir will determine for me whether the idea of India is worth fighting for.

--APK.

Shuaib said...

1,2 & 3. It was a political problem to start with, but unfortunately has acquired religious tones along the way. Why else would only the muslims (95% of the valley pop and majority in doda/poonch/rajouri) want azaadi and not others? The politicians of both sides also have done their bit to make it as communal as possible. The Indian politicians cos it helps them paint the freedom movement as something threatening the secularity of the country and the others cos it helps gain help from the ummah. (After all, a secular movement would be uncomfortable for both sides). So what started as a political problem where Kashmiris wanted their destiny in their hands has now become more religious ( even though the germ of the idea remains the same).
Now, the question to that begs to be answered is, can the issue be de-communalized? Difficult, but it should be done. And it requires some bold steps on part of the pro-freedom leaders. They would have to take a huge gamble and invite KPs to come back. The ordinary Kashmiris would welcome this step, but the anti-social elements (and there are too many of them of all hues in Kashmir) will try their best to scuttle this. In my opinion most of the KPs wont return (esp the ones well settled and those who have sold their properties etc) but the ones in Nagrota and other camps may return and everything should be done to protect these people. This would leave India on the backfoot and rob the jingoists of their biggest shouting point.

Shuaib said...

If the Govt has any intentions to address the ground issues, it has to take some bold steps. While investing in infrastructure and creating jobs may be good for the long term, short term measures have to be taken to show to the masses that the Govt intends well. And the principle amongst these is the revocation of both AFSPA as well as PSA. Plus the removal of security forces from towns/cities (As per the govt’s own claim, militancy is almost zero, so what is the problem? Let the forces guard the borders). Only then will some normality return and can we think of what permanent solution is there for the issue.
And that permanent solution IMO isn’t azadi but the softening of LOC. Let the people see for themselves what a mess Pakistan is, and get us Kashmiris out of the well that we live in.
Wishful thinking, maybe, but then this is no ordinary issue.

P.S: This post has turned out quite long, so apologies. Kyah karaw, the issue is very emotional.
Have been following your blog for some time. Keep up the good work.

Humanity! Oh, humanity! said...

For talks to move forward some tough Q's have to be asked off of everyone:

"Delhi": `initiated from across the border'... really now? What were you doing from '08 till it got `initiated' now?

Now to the main players in this:

A) J&K mainstream politicians:

1. Where are you? What is your job/mandate?

2. If you are elected for `bhijli', `sadak' and `paani', then how do you plan to honour your mandate when there are agitations?

3. Since you claim the problem is beyond your mandate, do we assume that your position MLA/MP/Minister etc stands void? What are you there for?

B) Separatists (Geelani/Andrabi and the ilk):

1) What is your vision for Kashmir and what does `kashmiriyat' mean to you?

C) `Moderate' Muslims:

1) Is violence of '89 justified? Was it within the parameters of `kashmiriyat'?

2) Moving forward, what is your vision for Kashmir? What will be the status of non-muslims?

3) Who are your political leaders?

D) `Moderate' Pandits:

1) Pre-'89, did you not agitate with fellow kashmiris? If so, is the issue that you protested no longer valid?

2) What would it take for you to achieve closure on '89 violence? Would you move back to the Valley? Under what condition?

3) Moving forward, what is your vision for Kashmir?

4) Who are your political leaders?

E) To all concerned:

1) Is Pak-Kashmir part of your vision? If so, how are Pak-Kashmiris doing? What is the demography of Pak-Kashmir?

F) Sabbah Haji:

1) Point #6... was it necessary? Is exclusion within the philosophy of `kashmiriyat'... even if the exclusion is that of a non-Kashmiri? Have heard and thought of Kashmiri and `kashmiriyat' as having a big-heart... :-(

2) Also, how are you sure that non-Kashmiris cannot contribute towards peace? I can understand that the Kashmiris should take the lead, but saying non-Kashmiris not welcome... unseemly.

longblackveil said...

Okayyyy. Humanity, Shuaib, Deepak, The Mule & APK are my favourites so far for making very sensible points, hitting the crux of the matter and... maintaining decorum.
As to Point #6, definitely not exclusivism. :) I welcome all comments, whether from Kashmiris or not. Only, I am sitting here moderating and I can see my point was pretty spot on. A lot of great thoughts from everyone but a lot of noise, nonsense and abuse from people who don't have a clue. Just saying.
Thank you all, by the way.

Qrratugai said...

Oh my goodness!
"6. Non-Kashmiris who have not lived here REALLY have no idea, as well-intentioned as you may be."

Absolutely correct :S I have/had absolutely NO idea what's going on there! I'm so immersed in the issues that Pashtuns are facing that I have utterly ignored the remaining peoples of the this vast world! God, I'm so ashamed of myself. And here I am, judging people by how well-aware of the current affairs they are around the world.

Thank you for your post!

longblackveil said...

@Qrratugai, thank you for stopping by. There's no need to apologise for not knowing about a particular region's particular problems. I don't know the first thing about Pashtun life and its complexities, forget about their political struggles. It's a huge world, and a lot of it is messed up, yes?
The point is I wouldn't dare pretend to know how it is for you living there, or give advice on a situation I don't know anything about - except for what I read or see on the telly. :)

the ownly vhon said...

This discussion is a good initiative. It gives those of us who would prefer to leave stones and bullets out of the equation, a chance to discuss and debate what is a highly complex issue.

I do not profess to be an expert on this issue, but I would like to express my views on a couple of points you raised.

1)Political/Communal? It could be a question of perspective. While the moderates on all fronts might see it as a political issue, the opportunists and fanatics from all sides would probably label it as communal.

3) It is typical of the entire sub continent to frame escapist theories to pin our erstwhile colonial rulers for our internal conflicts (or otherwise)! About time we face up to our problems. Lets Think, Talk, Do.

6) Sure, non-Kashmiris are ignorant about most issues concerning the region. But there is no disputing the fact that any solution and its outcome will in some way affect all concerned stakeholders. So it has to be one of inclusion, not exclusion.

Awaiting your detailed post. Lets get talking.

Anonymous said...

(1) Kashmir is a security problem. Brought on by all parties involved. People of the India state of Kashmir (Kashmiri) and Indian security forces

(2) Kashmir can and should be compared to every other Indian state. It is a home land security issue, rabble rousers in Kashmir should be treated the same as Naxalites in Andhra Pradesh. Terrorists are terrorists everywhere. One mans terrorist is NOT another mans freedom fighter. In reference to your drawing parallels of terrorists in Kashmir and Bhagat Singh and Netaji Bost (HT) . Neither of Bhagat Singh or Netaji used innocent lives as shields to personal safety, in the manner of the Kashmiri terrorist.

(3) While I do not understand many regions of my country because I have not lived there. I understand my country as a whole. It is an idea of unity and togetherness, constructed on the foundation of non violence. Kashmiris taken as a whole (I am generalizing) are a abomination to this idea. However a bad sibling is still a part of the family and you work towards making them a part of the larger family.

(4) Voter turnout across India in any state does not indicate acceptance of Indian statehood. A mother does not require acceptance of its child. The child works towards acceptance by its mother through respect, reverence and good judgment. A mother will also forgive the greatest of sins, if the child asks.

Finally, from an anecdotal reference, something that I experienced personally. People of mainline India sacrifice enormously for people from the Indian state of Kashmir, via quotas and preferential treatment. Which usually means someone has sacrificed his well being, for yours and that someone is not a person from the Indian state of Kashmir, he is a Bengali, Tamilian, Punjabi, Bihari, Maharashtrian or one of the people of the other states. That someone is a 17 years old kid with aspirations who crushed his own dreams and desires to make it possible for a Kashmiri to create a new opportunity. That someone is a freedom fighter, albeit an unsung one.

You should consider changing your blog title from long black veil to ignorant trouble causing evil.

Anonymous said...

So the fight is for a better tomorrow with good roads, hospitals, schools etc? And how would an independent small state guarantee that? I recently visited Srinagar and came out feeling sad and confused. Do read my post, not claiming to be a know-it-all! ;-) Take care you!

https://saysomethin.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/freedom-to-kashmir-series/

hippyhappy said...

A few comments as well:

1. Kashmir is a political problem, NOT a religious one.

Who are we trying to fool here ..... its part and parcel of the eastern thought process ( I guess it was america who came with the idea of state and the church should be seperate)

I would say its a political problem with religious overtones

simply we all have to have an open mind

( recently i was travelling from srinagar to delhi and the plane was full of amarnath yatri's , As soon as the plane started to move the cries of bum bum bhole started to resonate from the plane, these guyz were just devot hindu's coming back from a pilgrimage ,if i start calling them r.s.s cadre and bajrang dal activists is it right? Similarly calling a procession coming out from friday prayers shouting slogans of naar-takbir taliban is not right.)

What shuaib said is absolutely right.

4. I am really, really interested in talking with with serious, level-headed, non-combative Kashmiri Pandits - about everything. Get in touch with me, please?

After what happened to KP's they have all the right to be combative , i seriously think as a kashmiri muslim i owe KP'S an apology .
I apologise for not standing up and protecting you from the extremist forces in 89 (Although even the government failed to give you protection) , I apologise for being a mute spectator when you guyz were leaving your Homes .

(In srinagar we still dont cook or eat beef , where in india did u have such communal harmony were majority would restrain from a certain eating habit in respect of minorties religious beliefs.)

5. Kashmir cannot be compared to Indian states, because it is a completely unique issue.

As a kashmiri i would love to believe this but then except from the hindi heartland all indian states are unique .

9. YOUTH: Get together. Sanely. Please. So far, everyone's made a mess of things. Let's get organised and talk.

Depends on what mediums you use for talking ..... Jammu & Kashmir right now is a playground for a lot of agencies ,all having their own agenda's . Its very dangerous to speak out against any unless we are sitting beyond their reach.

Anonymous said...

maybe i missed a link somwhere, is a detailed post coming? :)
whats the best medium to know whats going on on the ground? something tells me i shudnt trust mainstream media from both sides.

The Mule said...

wow...some of you need to refresh your history a bit. kashmir IS unique bcoz unlike other states, kashmir WAS independent between aug 14th 1947 and oct 22nd 1947. bcoz of aggression of paki northwest frontier forces, the j&k king asked india for protection till kashmir issue could be decided. this is is the basis of UN resolution which states pakistan and india have to let the kashmiris decide what they want. its not for india and/or pakistan to determine whats right for us. and as an indian, you should ask why did india agree to this if the kashmir issue was so clear cut?

also, till 1958, kashmir actually had its own prime minister and constitution. due to our corrupt leaders, these powers were slowly taken away by india.

now, when kashmiris say they want freedom, thats exactly what they want. freedom. no merging with pakistan. i, being a kashmiri muslim have always known pakistan is not the answer for us kashmiris. i would be surprised if more than 5% of the population actually would want that.

as far as ladakh, jammu, etc are concerned, they will also vote. but you would be surprised to know that there is a considerable amount muslim population there who also want freedom(some districts in jammu have a 50-60% muslim population, if not higher). KPs will also vote, whether they are still in j&k or in other parts of india. we would definitely want their voice to be included in this.

now to come to the actual demand of freedom...being realistic, i am going to say, not going to happen(as much as that hurts me to say, it is true). what would solve this issue(being very optimistic here) is what some of the new generation of kashmiris have started floating around is the "andorra solution". goto wiki and read up a little on how the principality of andorra exists within france and spain borders. it is a very good answer to a complicated problem like kashmir. basically it would mean kashmir continues to be part of india's dominion as an independent principality. india's army will man the border against pakistan and china, hence their security concerns would be addressed and kashmir will continue to use indian currency as their defacto currency to be economically aligned with india. in return kashmiris get their destiny in hand where they decide how they should live and who should govern them.

its an idea...we all have to start somewhere. hopefully more people will become aware of this and think of it as an acceptable compromise because anything else does not seem likely to happen.

Yasin said...

A nice & brazenly put-forth post after a long time..
Pretty crude & blatant but nontheless something that ll help "Non-Kashmiris" understand the issue...and If only the Indian media could understand this stance.

I suggest; Try reading Pankaj Mishra's take on Kashmir in "Temptations of the West"..if you care to !